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00:00 I'm Renee Richie, YouTube creator
00:01
00:01 leazison, and I'm AB, PM lead for
00:04
00:04 YouTube Studio. AB, I am so glad to get
00:07
00:07 this chance to talk with you. Uh, you
00:09
00:09 are just like a ray of sunshine in my
00:11
00:11 creator day. I really appreciate it. Uh,
00:13
00:14 and I love that you make Studio, which
00:15
00:15 is like really a creator product, but I
00:19
00:19 know I think most people watching this
00:20
00:20 know what Studio is. I'd like to ask you
00:23
00:23 why Studio is because we can't always
00:25
00:25 take it for granted that you'd have a
00:27
00:27 separate app that gives everything that
00:29
00:29 creators want. That's like a big lift on
00:31
00:31 YouTube's part. Absolutely. I mean, I
00:33
00:33 think the first the the why and the what
00:36
00:36 are kind of connected. So, the why um we
00:40
00:40 sort of got together and really thought
00:41
00:41 about this, right? We're like, what is
00:43
00:43 the thing that manifests what studios
00:45
00:46 trying to be for creators? And we call
00:48
00:48 it the creative partner. So, it's that
00:50
00:50 partner that's right there with you, who
00:52
00:52 you can spar with, you can sort of uh
00:55
00:56 riff with, and that feeling that that
00:59
00:59 person's got your back in that, you
01:01
01:01 know, that sort of way. Um, your goals
01:03
01:03 are their goals, you know what I mean?
01:05
01:05 And so, that was the that's the why of
01:07
01:07 studio and that creative partner should
01:09
01:09 be at every stage of your journey. So,
01:11
01:11 whether you're starting out as a
01:13
01:13 upcoming creator, you know, dance casual
01:16
01:16 videos, right? um in the ma in the
01:19
01:19 YouTube app where we don't want you to
01:22
01:22 have to download another app. So we
01:23
01:24 brought like a we call it studio mini.
01:25
01:25 We brought a mini version of studio into
01:27
01:27 that. So you can get basic analytics,
01:28
01:28 you can get sort of your comments, you
01:30
01:30 can get some milestones to recognize,
01:33
01:33 you know, the progress. Everybody loves
01:34
01:34 a a milestone, right? Um and then as you
01:37
01:37 become, you know, you become more uh
01:39
01:39 intentful and more established and you
01:41
01:41 want to kind of go deeper into wait hold
01:43
01:43 on, let me go behind like why these
01:45
01:45 views are high on this video versus that
01:47
01:47 video, then you go into our standalone
01:50
01:50 experiences, studio mobile or studio
01:52
01:52 web. Um, so that's really it at the core
01:54
01:54 is the creative partner for creators. I
01:57
01:57 love that. I love that. I think what
01:58
01:58 we're seeing is really interesting that
01:59
01:59 to your point, uh, YouTube grew up with
02:02
02:02 a bunch of like long form creators who
02:03
02:03 became very like deep into the
02:05
02:05 ecosystem, but we're seeing this whole
02:07
02:07 other wave of people who maybe back in
02:09
02:09 the day would have posted on Usenet or a
02:11
02:11 forum or like on social media, but now
02:13
02:13 because everybody is so comfortable with
02:15
02:15 video, they're maybe they don't even see
02:17
02:17 themselves as a creator, but like I have
02:18
02:18 an opinion, I want to share it, I want
02:20
02:20 to have a discussion. And so like
02:21
02:21 they'll post a short, they'll do a reply
02:23
02:23 to a short, they'll have these whole
02:24
02:25 conversations online, but it's very
02:27
02:27 different than a traditional creator.
02:28
02:28 Maybe they haven't downloaded studio
02:30
02:30 yet. And I I like to actually say
02:33
02:33 they're very few people sort of come out
02:35
02:35 and say, I want to be a creator. Like
02:37
02:37 it's happening more and more. We're
02:38
02:38 looking at the uh the young the Gen
02:40
02:40 alphas and the Gen Z's of today. They
02:43
02:43 want to be used to be a YouTuber. Now
02:44
02:44 it's a creator. But there are a lot of
02:46
02:46 stories that you hear where it's just I
02:48
02:48 have a voice. I have something to share.
02:50
02:50 I have
02:52
02:52 something to see. And I want to be able
02:55
02:55 to do that in a way where it feels like
02:58
02:58 I don't need a lot of scaffolding as,
03:00
03:00 you know, I don't need to have to, you
03:03
03:03 know, have a whole team of or equipment.
03:06
03:06 I can just express myself. And then what
03:08
03:08 tends to happen is when you talk to
03:10
03:10 creators, there'll be something that
03:11
03:11 happens. There'll be that one video or
03:13
03:13 something that happens where they
03:14
03:14 suddenly start to think of themselves as
03:16
03:16 a creator. And then you'll have, of
03:18
03:18 course, people who just get up and say,
03:19
03:19 "Hey, I want to be a creator. That's my
03:21
03:21 thing." And those are, you know, they're
03:23
03:23 they're the very um uh very inspiring
03:26
03:26 cases because something just draws them
03:28
03:28 into it. But I think for both of these
03:30
03:30 groups of people, you want that
03:34
03:34 expression to be as seamless as possible
03:36
03:36 and you want it to feel like um I hear
03:38
03:38 the sort of expression, the weight of
03:40
03:40 the publish button. It's very light. And
03:42
03:42 so you sort of put that video out there.
03:45
03:45 You share what you feel you're
03:46
03:46 comfortable sharing and then you start
03:48
03:48 to find your voice is what I I I like to
03:50
03:50 call it. I love that. Yeah. Because
03:51
03:52 YouTube's mission is to give everyone a
03:53
03:53 voice and you help us figure out how it
03:55
03:55 resonates. Exactly. Yeah. That's
03:57
03:57 beautiful. So, we mentioned like the
03:59
03:59 casual versus like the intentful
04:00
04:00 creator, but you also have people who
04:02
04:02 might classify themselves more
04:03
04:03 artistically and not really like the
04:05
04:05 numbers. And then you have other people
04:07
04:07 who would classify themselves as maybe
04:09
04:09 like highle statistitians and want every
04:11
04:11 number you can give them and a pivot
04:12
04:12 table on top of it. How do you think
04:14
04:14 about balancing between that incredible
04:16
04:16 range of like creator interest? Well, I
04:18
04:18 I always like to say uh maybe it's, you
04:21
04:21 know, innocent or naive, but I like to
04:23
04:23 say that every problem that manifests in
04:25
04:25 the world is just a human problem and
04:28
04:28 you can look somewhere else and find the
04:29
04:29 same thing. So, for example, there are
04:31
04:31 people who obsess over like Bitcoin and
04:34
04:34 investing in, you know, different stocks
04:36
04:36 and tracking everything and going deep
04:38
04:38 into the market cap. Um, and there
04:40
04:40 people like, you know, me who just and
04:42
04:42 me. Yeah. I'm like I back in the day I
04:45
04:45 probably would have put my money under
04:46
04:46 my bed, you know what I mean? And and
04:47
04:47 now it's like okay, you know, the
04:49
04:49 simplest Vanguard stock index funding
04:52
04:52 and just like leave it alone, you know?
04:54
04:54 Um and so and then there people who
04:56
04:56 outsource it as well. So that's like
04:58
04:58 like a similar analogy. that people do
05:01
05:01 that with their finances, you know, they
05:02
05:02 look at every bill and then there are
05:03
05:03 people who are sort of like, you know
05:05
05:05 what, I'm just going to set aside an
05:06
05:06 amount and I'm not going to go to
05:07
05:07 optimize which phone, you know, so so we
05:11
05:11 have to ultimately creation is a human
05:15
05:15 experience at its core and I think
05:17
05:17 that's the most beautiful thing of it,
05:18
05:18 right? So what we try to do is sort of
05:20
05:20 get into there are all these different
05:22
05:22 nuanced humans right creators with
05:25
05:25 different needs and how do we make sure
05:27
05:27 that that studio flexes and we haven't
05:29
05:29 always like I think we used to sort of
05:31
05:31 optimize for here's all the information
05:33
05:33 and we're we're very right we're also
05:36
05:36 very sort of geeky uh you know uh uh
05:38
05:38 googlers right so um we like the numbers
05:41
05:41 and the data but not everyone thinks
05:43
05:43 that way so we want to make sure for
05:44
05:44 some people you know success is I have a
05:49
05:49 lot of people commenting and engaging
05:51
05:51 and liking. For some people, it's like I
05:52
05:52 want to go deep into how many watch
05:54
05:54 hours and how many views and how many
05:55
05:56 new. For some kinds of creators, it's I
05:59
05:59 want more new viewers. And for others,
06:01
06:01 it's I want more returning. I want
06:03
06:03 stickiness out. And actually, that also
06:05
06:05 evolves. You might start off wanting
06:07
06:07 something and you might change. And I I
06:09
06:09 call these sort of the inflection
06:10
06:10 points. And it's very like just in life,
06:12
06:12 what you wanted when you were a
06:13
06:13 5-year-old, what you wanted a
06:14
06:14 10-year-old, 18-year-old, 21-year-old
06:17
06:17 evolves. And so that creator life cycle
06:19
06:19 is also very important. So we're always
06:23
06:23 thinking about let's try to sort of
06:25
06:25 think about the different types of
06:27
06:27 creators, what they're trying to
06:28
06:28 accomplish, and make sure that a true
06:31
06:31 creative partner would speak the same
06:33
06:33 language, right? And there's so much
06:35
06:35 more we can do with that. So things like
06:37
06:37 um we used to show uh the the sort of
06:41
06:41 the red color for when numbers were down
06:43
06:43 like you know hearing from creators
06:45
06:45 actually that doesn't really inspire me
06:47
06:47 like I wouldn't want to come into work
06:48
06:48 and it's like you know here's how all
06:50
06:50 the things you didn't do well. So um so
06:52
06:52 we're definitely working on making sure
06:54
06:54 that we better understand creator needs
06:57
06:57 and then having studio sort of flex to
07:00
07:00 meet creators where they are. Yeah, I
07:02
07:02 love that because like some of the
07:04
07:04 things that you're doing on different
07:05
07:05 extremes I really like because I'm a
07:07
07:07 recovering data person and data I love
07:10
07:10 that data doesn't really tell you
07:11
07:11 anything like if you have one point of
07:12
07:12 data it's a state if you have two points
07:15
07:15 it's a direction if you have multiple
07:16
07:16 points it's a trend but like you still
07:19
07:19 have to interpret it and maybe 30% means
07:21
07:21 you shouldn't do it or maybe it means
07:22
07:22 you should do more and that's not
07:24
07:24 obvious just like when you see the
07:25
07:25 numbers so I love that now you have like
07:27
07:27 these little descriptions of your
07:29
07:29 regular viewers aren't engaging as much
07:30
07:30 or your regular viewers are engaging
07:32
07:32 more or like we get the weekly summaries
07:34
07:34 and like these very Edward Tuddy visual
07:37
07:37 representations of data for people who
07:38
07:38 aren't as numbercentric but need those
07:40
07:40 visuals and on the other end we're
07:42
07:42 getting more detail in the advanced
07:43
07:43 analytics like buy retention by view
07:45
07:45 like all these slicing and dicing
07:47
07:47 segments and it sort of feels like I'm
07:48
07:48 getting fed on both sides which I love.
07:50
07:50 I mean I I a perfect analogy is we all
07:53
07:53 have we've just started the year we all
07:55
07:55 have New Year's resolutions 10,000 steps
07:58
07:58 and uh reading number of books etc. Um,
08:02
08:02 you know, you look at your data and it
08:03
08:03 sort of says, "Oh, you're gaining
08:04
08:04 weight, right?" And true story. And then
08:08
08:08 to your point, it's like you could look
08:10
08:10 at that one point in time where you
08:11
08:11 could say, "Wait, hold on a second.
08:12
08:12 Maybe yesterday I drank a lot of water
08:15
08:15 or I ate very late. I'm building muscle.
08:18
08:18 I just getting to that I'm building
08:19
08:19 muscle." And actually, maybe it's this
08:21
08:21 actually is a good thing. And so I like
08:23
08:23 to say, and you know, this is maybe
08:25
08:25 crazy to hear from somebody who's who
08:27
08:27 whose team builds YouTube analytics, the
08:30
08:30 data can be fantastically wrong. Yeah.
08:33
08:33 Depending on how you look at it and it
08:35
08:35 can also be fantastically beautiful. And
08:37
08:37 I think going one step back using this
08:39
08:39 weight analogy as well is what are you
08:41
08:41 trying to accomplish? Yeah. Right. So
08:44
08:44 what tends to happen is you know not
08:47
08:47 every creator should be looking at all
08:48
08:48 the same metrics at the same time. If
08:50
08:50 you are a creator, I love your uh lawn
08:53
08:53 lawn mower analogy. If you're a creator
08:55
08:55 who's making sort of um uh uh uh you
08:59
08:59 know, videos where it's it's sort of a
09:01
09:02 one-time one right answer, like how do I
09:05
09:05 fix my Philip Hugh light bulb, right? I
09:08
09:08 I'm hoping I'm not having that problem
09:10
09:10 every day. Do you know what I mean? Um,
09:12
09:12 and if that's the goal and then maybe
09:14
09:14 you're looking at more new viewers
09:16
09:16 because every time you're reaching more
09:18
09:18 and more people, but you know, we were
09:19
09:20 talking about this the other day. If
09:21
09:21 you're a creator who's um, you care
09:23
09:23 about sort of the the Philips Huegh
09:25
09:25 range of light bulbs, then you start to
09:26
09:26 talk about, you know, ways to avoid
09:29
09:29 problems, you know, updates to the app,
09:31
09:31 and then you start to bring the
09:33
09:33 stickiness of people who resonate with
09:34
09:34 that story. So, I like to sort of, you
09:37
09:37 know, say there are two dimensions to
09:39
09:39 think about. Um, one is what kind of
09:43
09:43 story are you telling? So, is the story
09:45
09:45 to educate people on something or is the
09:48
09:48 story to connect on a sort of
09:50
09:50 experience, right? Um, so I'm Nigerian.
09:53
09:53 I have videos on DJing. I actually have
09:56
09:56 my life set, my sets there. I have
09:57
09:57 videos on cooking on traveling and I'm
10:00
10:00 hoping another Nigerian will look at it
10:01
10:01 and be like, "Oh, I'm interested to see
10:02
10:02 another Nigerian's life." Right? Um, I
10:05
10:05 don't have videos that are like, "This
10:06
10:06 is my domain and my expertise."
10:11
10:11 there is the experience, but there's
10:14
10:14 maybe, you know, like I told you, I
10:16
10:16 started um I actually uh worked on a
10:19
10:19 short documentary. Yeah. You're a
10:20
10:20 creator. I'm a creator. And um and I
10:23
10:23 also like to say if I knew you felt our
10:24
10:24 pain, I felt I feel the pain every day.
10:27
10:27 And I if I knew the hacks, I would not
10:29
10:29 have 150 subscribers. So like and
10:31
10:31 subscribe. Um like and subscribe.
10:35
10:35 And so, you know, with this uh other
10:38
10:38 channel that I have that's more about,
10:40
10:40 you know, uh celebrating West African
10:41
10:42 culture, it's a very specific story and
10:43
10:44 I'm hoping that people will come back
10:45
10:45 for that for the story, right? Not so
10:47
10:47 much um the the experience side. So, and
10:52
10:52 then there are creators who are really
10:53
10:53 good at blending the two where you know
10:55
10:55 you they're talking about an iPhone or
10:57
10:58 talking about whatever the topic dour
10:59
10:59 is, but they're able to bring themselves
11:01
11:01 into that. So you have this connected
11:03
11:03 the experience as well as the topical
11:05
11:05 right and so first is like what are you
11:07
11:07 trying to accomplish and then out of
11:09
11:09 that you'll now see okay where am I in
11:10
11:10 my journey am I at the stage where I'm
11:12
11:12 trying to get you know reach more people
11:14
11:14 to see this video or I'm at the stage
11:16
11:16 where I'm trying to get more people to
11:17
11:17 engage more deeply so there are these
11:20
11:20 those are the kind of the two dimensions
11:22
11:22 what kind of topic and what am I
11:24
11:24 optimizing for and what am I trying to
11:25
11:25 accomplish right now and that actually
11:28
11:28 continues along the continuum of your
11:30
11:30 life cycle Right? And then you can start
11:32
11:32 to ask questions like, okay, where are
11:34
11:34 people finding my videos from? Um, if
11:37
11:37 I'm trying to drive reach, then okay,
11:39
11:39 maybe I don't know, maybe I need to
11:40
11:40 create shorts that are linked to my
11:42
11:42 video, or maybe, you know, I want to
11:44
11:44 collaborate with another creator um that
11:47
11:47 reaches that helps me reach more people.
11:49
11:49 Um, and then if it's more that I've got
11:51
11:51 my people, but I'm seeing that they're
11:52
11:52 not sticking. I watch a video, I look at
11:55
11:55 a video, and the average viewer duration
11:56
11:56 is tipping off. Okay, why is that? Is
11:59
11:59 that okay? Did I expect that? Right? So
12:02
12:02 the people that stay are like the dieh
12:03
12:03 hard I want to get to the end of this
12:04
12:04 video or actually no I need to optimize
12:06
12:06 the first 15 seconds you'll hear the the
12:08
12:08 first minute. So I think there are all
12:10
12:10 these questions that not everyone's
12:12
12:12 metrics should look the same just as not
12:16
12:16 every human
12:17
12:17 going back to this this to your point
12:19
12:19 not every day may not every day may be
12:21
12:21 the same right so what are you trying to
12:22
12:22 accomplish and being very intentional
12:24
12:24 about that. Yeah. So I I love just
12:27
12:27 diving in to sort of answer questions.
12:29
12:29 Like one of the things I I like the
12:31
12:31 dashboard, but the dashboard gives me a
12:33
12:33 lot of statistics and averages and
12:35
12:35 statistics and averages are terrible for
12:36
12:36 me. I love to like click in. So like if
12:38
12:38 I for example like I see traffic sources
12:41
12:42 and we have people sometimes saying,
12:43
12:43 "Hey, don't like uncheck show this to
12:45
12:45 your subscribers and your views will go
12:46
12:46 up." But if you click into traffic
12:48
12:48 sources, you'll just see that you
12:50
12:50 removed that element, but your browse
12:51
12:52 views didn't go up. like or if you're
12:54
12:54 saying, "Oh, the algorithm hates me."
12:55
12:56 You can click in and see, oh, how are my
12:58
12:58 subscribers reacting to this video? And
12:59
13:00 like, oh, they don't like it either.
13:01
13:01 Maybe it's, you know, maybe it's not the
13:03
13:03 algorithm. That can give you like a gut
13:05
13:05 check there. So, like going into the the
13:08
13:08 details, I think, are like super
13:09
13:09 interesting. Absolutely. And going into
13:11
13:11 the details with an intention, right?
13:13
13:14 So, you just go into the details, you
13:15
13:15 will find the devil, right? You just go
13:17
13:17 in with no. But if you're going in with
13:19
13:19 a curiosity of like, wait, hold on a
13:21
13:21 second. Why is this doing this? I'm
13:23
13:23 going to compare it with another video.
13:24
13:24 What's also happening because also the
13:27
13:27 world is changing. So what's happening
13:29
13:29 right now? If you, you know, are putting
13:32
13:32 out a video right when Kendrick Lamar is
13:34
13:34 doing the Super Bowl, right, you know,
13:36
13:36 the World Cup, the World Cup, you know,
13:38
13:38 football or soccer for the Americans.
13:40
13:40 Um, so I think there's, you know, there
13:42
13:42 all all these nuances in what's
13:44
13:44 happening macro, what am I sort of
13:46
13:46 trying to accomplish? What can I learn
13:49
13:49 from the numbers? And then that helps
13:51
13:51 you go in with a little bit more um
13:54
13:54 intentionality of you know when I find
13:57
13:57 those when I go into those details I'm
13:59
13:59 able to meet them with curiosity and
14:02
14:02 then ask the why why why you know the
14:03
14:03 five W. So have a goal for what you want
14:05
14:06 to do and a goal for what you want to
14:07
14:07 learn. Yes. I love that. And and then I
14:10
14:10 think there's another uh thing which is
14:12
14:12 we also recognize that just having new
14:13
14:13 and returning I mean that's quite that's
14:15
14:15 a broad SWAT right and um one of the
14:19
14:19 things we're definitely looking to do is
14:21
14:21 how do we bring more nuance into
14:23
14:23 understanding those groups right new
14:25
14:26 returning are there other sort of slices
14:28
14:28 that help you returning once versus
14:30
14:30 returning 10 times might be different
14:31
14:31 precisely like if I watched your video
14:33
14:33 and I came back after a month that's
14:34
14:34 different and that's that's very
14:36
14:36 different from someone who's watching it
14:37
14:37 every day right and So we want to also
14:39
14:39 help you better understand that and you
14:41
14:42 may find actually it's maybe not a bad
14:43
14:43 thing that you have these 50 people that
14:45
14:45 are returning every single day. You know
14:48
14:48 what can I learn about what's what's
14:50
14:50 keeping that group of people and maybe
14:51
14:52 that's what I optimize for in new people
14:55
14:55 come because it's not always a bad thing
14:56
14:56 for people to come in and say actually
14:58
14:58 maybe that's not for me and then you
15:00
15:00 find your your tribe and your fans that
15:03
15:03 actually wow I want more of this. Also,
15:05
15:05 it like if you have 100,000 views for
15:07
15:07 several videos, it's probably not the
15:09
15:09 same 100,000 people, but there probably
15:11
15:11 is a segment Yeah. that are going video
15:14
15:14 to video. And learning that can really
15:15
15:16 help you like do that deeper engagement
15:17
15:17 you were talking about. And what are
15:18
15:18 they coming for? You know what I mean?
15:20
15:20 Yeah. So, I I um I see that for example
15:23
15:23 with my my DJing videos. Um the people
15:25
15:25 who come back for the track track ID,
15:28
15:28 right? I'm like, okay, that's like a
15:30
15:30 very specific. But then I post videos of
15:32
15:32 our dog and travel. I mean the people
15:35
15:35 who are coming for track ID probably
15:36
15:36 don't care about that right so there's
15:38
15:38 also that awareness of okay like there's
15:40
15:40 a certain group that comes back you'll
15:41
15:41 see them comment I'll have my two or
15:43
15:43 three comments uh every time I post a
15:45
15:45 mix a mixtape uh and sort of say where's
15:48
15:48 the next one so yeah it's it's it's just
15:51
15:51 like life have a have purpose that
15:53
15:53 brings me to like I think the famous or
15:55
15:55 sometimes infamous one out of 10 10 out
15:57
15:57 of 10 um I I had a hard time with that
16:00
16:00 initially and then uh mutual friend Todd
16:02
16:02 Bop pre said like relative to relative
16:05
16:05 to what? Uh, and I had to look and say
16:08
16:08 like I would make a video about like a
16:09
16:09 big phone review and it would be one of
16:11
16:11 10, but I would make a video about
16:13
16:13 accessibility and it would be 10 of 10
16:14
16:14 and I would be sad about it. But then I
16:16
16:16 realized, you know, in Hollywood they
16:18
16:18 make a big uh like superhero blockbuster
16:21
16:21 but then they go and do an artouse film.
16:23
16:23 Are they upset the box office and the
16:25
16:25 and the bill payment day isn't the same?
16:28
16:28 No, they make the big one so that they
16:30
16:30 have the luxury of making that. And that
16:32
16:32 just changed my world and I started
16:34
16:34 thinking what's the addressable market
16:36
16:36 of this video? What's the supply and
16:37
16:38 demand within that market? And then how
16:40
16:40 well am I executing within that space?
16:43
16:43 And that helped me understand that this
16:45
16:45 this very small cultural video is never
16:48
16:48 going to have the same appeal as this
16:49
16:49 gadget that everyone in the world wants.
16:51
16:51 And so I can use these within that to
16:53
16:53 sort of set my own expectations. Spot
16:55
16:55 on. And you this pattern exists in um uh
17:02
17:02 in so many ways, right? Again, going
17:04
17:04 back to sort of the human experience,
17:06
17:06 there are times when we want to take
17:08
17:08 risks and try new things. And of course,
17:10
17:10 as you know, um there there are lots of
17:12
17:12 we probably linked them in the show
17:14
17:14 notes, quite a few videos about the
17:16
17:16 algorithm and the myths around the
17:17
17:17 algorithm. Um, and again, you know, you
17:22
17:22 have people uh you have a you have macro
17:25
17:25 topical things that are top of mind. And
17:27
17:27 so for some, I hear some creators sort
17:29
17:29 of say, I take what I do and when I'm
17:31
17:31 optimizing for sort of um jumping on
17:33
17:33 that zeitgeist moment, I'll take a
17:35
17:35 topic, whether it's the Olympics or
17:36
17:36 something, and weave that into my story,
17:38
17:38 make a comedy skit about it. Um but if
17:41
17:41 you are optimizing for telling you and
17:43
17:43 and for me this is something I think
17:45
17:45 when I speak to creators when you know
17:48
17:48 um it gets you know gets tough and you
17:51
17:51 know they're sort of uh um uh that
17:53
17:53 period where it's like I feel like I
17:55
17:55 have to keep going and the thing they
17:57
17:57 come back to all the time is a a
17:59
17:59 reminder of why I started doing what I
18:01
18:01 was doing right and if the why was you
18:04
18:04 know and and hopefully is I want to
18:07
18:07 share something with the world whether
18:09
18:09 it's a passion Like I'm obsessed. I used
18:11
18:11 to be obsessed once upon a time. I don't
18:13
18:13 watch them as much anymore with chess
18:14
18:14 videos. I watched every single, you
18:16
18:16 know, whether it's Gotham chess or like
18:18
18:18 I want, you know. Yes. Um and uh uh uh I
18:22
18:22 mean even when from his girlfriend to
18:24
18:24 his fiance to I feel like I was part of
18:26
18:26 his life, you know. Um and and I'm not
18:28
18:28 watching those anymore. Like I not
18:30
18:30 because of I'm just now I'm you know bit
18:32
18:32 more obsessed with like plants. Um, but
18:35
18:35 people, humans go through es and flame
18:37
18:37 of thrones era and then you have like
18:39
18:39 your severance era. Yeah. Yeah. I'm
18:41
18:41 definitely in the seance era. I'm like
18:43
18:43 down in the Reddits on on the severance
18:45
18:45 and like in the the comments. Um, and so
18:48
18:48 I think you know the the the the top 10
18:52
18:52 it is great to always think about what
18:55
18:55 did what worked and how do I keep
18:57
18:57 pushing the envelope. But I think it's
18:59
18:59 also very important to say sometimes
19:01
19:01 it's okay to have certain things where
19:04
19:04 and again this is the intentionality
19:05
19:05 piece where it's like I tried something
19:07
19:07 different and actually when I looked at
19:10
19:10 it maybe the curiosity maybe there was
19:13
19:13 something in that there are group of
19:14
19:14 people who loved it um there people
19:17
19:17 maybe this was not the video for reach
19:19
19:19 maybe I was too you know I took too much
19:21
19:21 of a risk which is fine because but
19:23
19:23 there's always something to learn or
19:25
19:25 maybe it's serving my core audience or
19:27
19:27 maybe it's like oh I can the small tweak
19:29
19:29 with a thumbnail and reach. That's why I
19:31
19:31 love like we have like the seg
19:32
19:32 thumbnails now. I am I thought I was
19:34
19:34 being so smooth. Um I because it was
19:38
19:38 such a big thing meaningful thing for
19:39
19:39 creators because creators have been
19:40
19:40 asking for a long time for thumbnail AB
19:42
19:42 testing. You did better. You did
19:44
19:44 thumbnail ABC like you did test and
19:46
19:46 compare. Uh and people love it. But
19:49
19:49 again like we have this like tyranny of
19:51
19:51 statistics. So, one of the questions we
19:52
19:52 get is I ran the test um and sometimes
19:56
19:56 it's like I changed like the small pin
19:58
19:58 on my collar. There's three different
19:59
19:59 pins on the collar and we I don't get a
20:01
20:01 winner just because the difference is
20:02
20:02 too small. But even sometimes they'll
20:03
20:04 run the test and they'll say I got 32,
20:07
20:07 33, and 35, but it says no winner
20:09
20:09 declared, right? Uh like what does that
20:12
20:12 really mean? Like what does a like
20:13
20:13 statistically significant mean as
20:15
20:15 opposed to just oh the sheer number is
20:17
20:17 higher? I'll try to um uh explain this
20:20
20:20 in a something we can all relate to.
20:23
20:23 Right? So um
20:26
20:26 when you if you take a coin, let's say
20:28
20:28 we took a coin and you said heads and I
20:29
20:29 said tails and we flip that coin a 100
20:32
20:32 times. If I'm flipping it in the exact
20:35
20:35 same way, I'm not like, you know, trying
20:37
20:37 to, you know, um, in the exact same way,
20:40
20:40 you probably should expect something
20:41
20:41 like 55 times it was heads or 45 times
20:44
20:44 it was tails or, you know, um, you know,
20:47
20:47 51 49 because it's a fair toss every
20:51
20:51 time. The coin is weighted the same. The
20:53
20:53 air in this room hasn't changed. Gravity
20:55
20:55 hasn't changed. So basically, we end up
20:57
20:58 with this this difference. If however I
21:00
21:00 did that and you got 8020 right um now
21:05
21:05 you're saying oh wow there's a massive
21:07
21:07 difference but was it fair? Yeah. And so
21:09
21:09 what we you know what the the sort of uh
21:12
21:12 the wizards of data science do is
21:14
21:14 they'll use maths to essentially ask the
21:16
21:16 question is the probability of this
21:19
21:19 randomness fair? Okay. Right. And what
21:22
21:22 you want is if that probability that
21:24
21:24 it's like it this is this actually you
21:27
21:27 know is not something where something
21:28
21:28 has changed right and it's low then you
21:32
21:32 have statistical significance it means
21:34
21:34 there actually is something different
21:36
21:36 right it's not something else that is
21:38
21:38 changing the fact that this we're
21:41
21:41 getting signal not noise it's it's
21:42
21:42 signal not noise I love that and so and
21:44
21:44 you think about a platform like YouTube
21:47
21:47 that is so nuanced right because again
21:49
21:49 you know we're showing at different
21:50
21:50 times of days when people are watching
21:52
21:52 videos um the kind of videos I want to
21:54
21:54 watch in the morning when I'm about to
21:56
21:56 you know get on my bike quick video and
21:58
21:58 the video my phone versus TV are very
22:01
22:01 different so we also have to you know we
22:03
22:03 have to do a lot of sort of maths and
22:05
22:05 you know to to really make sure that you
22:07
22:07 have statistical significance now if you
22:10
22:10 did that 10 times versus a million times
22:14
22:14 right um you start to see that you start
22:17
22:17 to get that statistical significance
22:18
22:18 because we've just had too few tosses to
22:21
22:21 determine whether that probability of
22:24
22:24 getting heads versus tails I try not to
22:26
22:26 go into too much but I'm hoping you know
22:28
22:28 you're still with me in this and so that
22:30
22:30 that really is it and so um we can't if
22:34
22:34 you you have too few instances and not I
22:37
22:37 need you know I need to control for for
22:39
22:39 example 4:00 the same phone the same
22:42
22:42 location the same to make sure this is
22:44
22:44 truly a difference that thumbnail A
22:47
22:47 versus thumbnail B heads versus tails
22:49
22:49 was truly different otherwise you could
22:51
22:51 say wait hold on it was the time of the
22:52
22:52 day or hold on it was maybe you know
22:54
22:54 what the person watched before or there
22:56
22:56 all these these ran for one less day
22:57
22:57 versus one more day thank you and so
23:00
23:00 that's that's what we mean by
23:01
23:01 statistical sign so ladies and gentlemen
23:03
23:04 I have now educated you on thumbnail
23:06
23:06 test statistical significance and uh um
23:09
23:09 uh AB experimentation or ABC
23:11
23:11 experimentation and of course ABC you're
23:13
23:13 adding one more variable so that makes
23:15
23:15 it even need more instances to contri to
23:17
23:17 to see um that statistical significance
23:20
23:20 So that really is what it comes down to
23:21
23:21 that we don't want to say actually heads
23:24
23:24 is better. Yeah. When hold on maybe the
23:27
23:27 finger was different in the way it was
23:28
23:28 tossed or it landed on the floor versus
23:30
23:30 the table. So we need enough instances
23:33
23:33 to control for the exact same sort of um
23:37
23:37 uh circumstances to say truly heads was
23:40
23:40 better. So indeed if heads and tails are
23:42
23:42 no they look exactly the same
23:45
23:45 right or you have this tiny delta we're
23:48
23:48 not really able to say whether there
23:49
23:49 really is a meaningful difference. So
23:51
23:51 what I hear some creators say is they'll
23:53
23:53 run sometimes an AB test um with two
23:56
23:56 very different concepts and then when
23:58
23:58 one of them wins then they'll run a
24:01
24:01 nuanced version of that option. But if
24:04
24:04 you are a creator that's not getting as
24:05
24:05 many in views or impressions, then what
24:08
24:08 we tried to do is say, okay, we can't
24:10
24:10 say that this was stat statistically
24:12
24:12 significant. But we can see there was a
24:15
24:15 preferred skew, but I can't tell you for
24:18
24:18 a fact with confidence the heads is, you
24:21
24:21 know, we saw heads 60% of the time, but
24:23
24:23 I can't tell you whether that was
24:25
24:25 randomness, whether that truly, you see
24:26
24:26 what I mean? We've done it for twice as
24:27
24:27 long or twice as many views, it would
24:29
24:29 have been a different result. So this is
24:30
24:30 this is the this is the essence of it.
24:32
24:32 So, some of the things that we tell
24:33
24:33 creators when they come to us with this
24:35
24:35 is like if if this is a result you're
24:37
24:37 doing it on day one, it might be your
24:39
24:39 audience just loves you and they're they
24:40
24:40 would click on like much more variance
24:42
24:42 of thumbnails than an audience that
24:43
24:43 doesn't know you. So, try running the
24:45
24:45 test later or the difference is so small
24:47
24:47 that it it's not really like apparent to
24:49
24:50 people. So, make a bigger difference in
24:51
24:51 your concept. So, there's a lot of
24:53
24:53 variables creators can play around with
24:54
24:54 to uh test like now test like a couple
24:57
24:57 weeks later even testing back catalog
24:59
24:59 sometimes. Absolutely. You know, and
25:02
25:02 also I really love um I I think about
25:06
25:06 again going back to human. If I read a
25:09
25:09 bottle and the bottle said red wine and
25:11
25:12 then I poured it out and it was white
25:13
25:13 wine, like I might not, you know, if I
25:15
25:16 if I might be like, "Oh, interesting."
25:17
25:17 Or I might be like, "That's not what I
25:19
25:19 expected." So, I think there's also this
25:21
25:21 importance of making sure that the
25:22
25:22 thumbnail speaks to, you know, the the
25:24
25:24 the the thing on the tin is what is in
25:27
25:27 the tin, right? um it says what it you
25:29
25:29 know um or you sort of uh uh keep the
25:32
25:32 curiosity where it's like I'm going to
25:33
25:34 find out what's inside. Yeah. Um and so
25:37
25:37 I I do think that uh with thumbnails,
25:40
25:40 you know, the other topic that tends to
25:41
25:41 come up is this clickthrough rate. Um
25:43
25:43 and I will just versus sort of uh watch
25:46
25:46 time and the reason we look at watch
25:47
25:47 time is yes, you might be able to get
25:48
25:48 someone to peak the curiosity of click
25:52
25:52 open, you know, oh what's in the tin,
25:54
25:54 you know, like on the tin, do you want
25:56
25:56 to know what's in this tin? Yeah, I do.
25:57
25:57 open it. Maybe it's not for me, but
25:59
25:59 actually, and that's fine if that's what
26:01
26:01 you're optimizing for, but ultimately
26:03
26:03 when we say give everyone a voice and
26:05
26:05 show them the world, it's that it should
26:07
26:07 be a signal into what you're about to
26:10
26:10 find. And so, we look at the fact that
26:12
26:12 this person watched tells you that this
26:16
26:16 delivered on what it was it was
26:18
26:18 intending to do. And so that's also the
26:20
26:20 reasoning for why we lean into sort of
26:22
26:22 watch time because ultimately that's the
26:25
26:25 thing that's going to get stickiness,
26:26
26:26 returning viewers. Um that's going to
26:28
26:28 get people um uh that's going to get you
26:31
26:31 know uh ads placed in in the video,
26:33
26:34 right, for those who are monetized. Um,
26:36
26:36 so I I think it really it goes we we
26:38
26:38 went the if the the moral of the story
26:40
26:40 today is like intentionality like what
26:42
26:42 are you trying to get with that
26:43
26:43 thumbnail and how do you make sure that
26:46
26:46 you are learning even with the
26:48
26:48 thumbnails and the variations but also
26:50
26:50 when you get a preferred that's just a
26:51
26:51 signal um and yeah sometimes I love that
26:54
26:54 because you have to like you have to
26:56
26:56 click to be able to watch it and you
26:58
26:58 have to retain to be able to get the
27:00
27:00 time and if if you just indexed on
27:03
27:03 click-through and people felt like
27:05
27:05 they'd been click baited and dropped out
27:07
27:07 of the video like you had zero
27:08
27:08 attention. You'd get worse performance.
27:09
27:09 We would be giving you a result that
27:11
27:11 encouraged you to have like worse
27:12
27:12 performance on your videos. And I think
27:14
27:14 that's the paradox of data we were
27:15
27:15 talking about earlier where sometimes
27:17
27:17 someone's like studio will say the
27:18
27:18 clickthrough rate is really high and
27:20
27:20 they'll say like why am I not getting
27:21
27:21 more views? And it's because uh you know
27:23
27:24 10% of a thousand is way less than 2% of
27:26
27:26 a million, right? So like the statistics
27:28
27:28 it comes back to that and I think trying
27:30
27:30 to be helpful here is to really help
27:31
27:31 creators understand it's watch time
27:33
27:33 that's that's showing them the the good
27:35
27:35 results from the video. Yeah. And I I
27:37
27:37 also think um there obviously tactics
27:39
27:40 like you know um when I click
27:42
27:42 through you know a lot depending on if
27:45
27:45 I'm on TV or mobile there's also sort of
27:48
27:48 like I want to almost get the trailer
27:50
27:50 version. And I hear creators say that,
27:51
27:51 but they're creators and I actually, you
27:53
27:53 know, I love um I one of the my favorite
27:55
27:55 things to do on YouTube is like go down
27:56
27:56 the rabbit hole of short films and um
27:59
27:59 you just see these these beautiful
28:01
28:01 videos and I'm glad that they don't
28:04
28:04 start with 15 seconds of boom boom boom
28:05
28:05 boom boom because I actually want to
28:07
28:07 sort of discover um there's a creator I
28:09
28:09 love uh Danny Gervitz who I watch all
28:11
28:11 the time and it's just these really
28:13
28:13 beautiful like the cinematography is
28:15
28:15 amazing and so like for that sort of
28:17
28:18 creator you know you might see the
28:19
28:19 thumbnail and some people might click in
28:20
28:20 and it's like, "Oh, it's starting slow."
28:22
28:22 And actually, that's the beauty of it.
28:24
28:24 But he has other videos where he goes
28:26
28:26 straight into it, right? So, um, again,
28:28
28:28 it goes back to what we talked about
28:29
28:29 earlier of, you know, I I I would love
28:32
28:32 to continue to see people feeling
28:33
28:33 comfortable to experiment within reason.
28:35
28:35 Uh, because that's where the magic comes
28:36
28:36 out. Like, if we don't push the
28:37
28:38 envelope, how do we find these magical
28:40
28:40 uh pieces? But also being comfortable
28:42
28:42 with, you know, not every video has to
28:44
28:44 have the same goals. Some might be
28:46
28:46 reaching new people. Some might be for
28:47
28:47 your existing jobs, different jobs to be
28:49
28:49 done, a very very product manager of
28:50
28:50 you. Um, I think there's something else
28:52
28:52 that I I a lot of time when I speak to
28:54
28:54 creators, I don't hear that they know
28:56
28:56 about this. So, I um a lot of creators
29:00
29:00 know that you can link from a short to a
29:02
29:02 a VOD. A lot of creators do not. So,
29:04
29:04 this is my uh um you know, that's
29:06
29:06 something to think about. There are
29:07
29:08 moments like I watch these podcasts like
29:10
29:10 3 hours long like Andrew Humeman podcast
29:12
29:12 three hours long and I'll watch them
29:14
29:14 over multiple days and that's great. I
29:16
29:16 would pause and I come back and
29:17
29:17 sometimes I rewatch them. Um I
29:19
29:20 especially loved like his Andy Galpin
29:21
29:21 series. Um he had four parts, six parts.
29:25
29:25 Um and really talking about like you
29:27
29:27 know weight and all of that. Um but
29:29
29:29 there all these shorts as well because
29:30
29:30 there times I come back and I want to
29:32
29:32 just remember a thing that Andy said um
29:34
29:34 there was kind of this sound bite and
29:37
29:37 that's amazing. I think both of those
29:39
29:39 work and what's a lot of creators don't
29:40
29:40 realize is you can actually link
29:42
29:42 multiple shorts. Yes. to a single VOD.
29:44
29:44 And I, you know, I I'm I love film as
29:48
29:48 I've probably, you know, I love watching
29:50
29:50 trailers. I used to just I remember when
29:52
29:52 you used to just go and watch trailers,
29:53
29:53 you know, like in the cinema, I don't
29:55
29:55 like missing the trailers. And whilst,
29:57
29:57 you know, shorts is not just to be used
30:00
30:00 for trailers, you also use that for sort
30:01
30:01 of the behind the scenes and like the
30:03
30:03 sort of what's coming and it's like
30:05
30:05 lightweight creation. But also, I think
30:07
30:07 there's an element of like find me those
30:09
30:10 golden nuggets, right, that you would
30:12
30:12 probably put at the beginning of the
30:13
30:13 video, but also use shorts because now
30:15
30:15 I'm just swiping through and that is a
30:18
30:18 beautiful way to discover content I may
30:19
30:19 never have found. And you can link
30:21
30:21 multiple shorts to a but it is to your
30:22
30:22 point very Hollywood like Hollywood like
30:24
30:24 there will be like this is what's coming
30:25
30:25 for the movie. The movie is dropping
30:27
30:27 today. Here's the movie. Here's like the
30:29
30:29 scene from the movie. Like here's like
30:31
30:31 what people are saying about the movie.
30:32
30:32 Here's the interview that we did about
30:33
30:34 the movie. Here's like the Q&A we did
30:35
30:35 and all of it. extras, you know, stay
30:37
30:37 save for the directors. And and I I feel
30:40
30:40 like I'd love to see more people use
30:41
30:42 those sort of those other elements.
30:43
30:43 Also, posts post a picture about, hey,
30:46
30:46 we're about to we're about to get in and
30:47
30:47 like record this podcast. And, you know,
30:50
30:50 it's it's it's again a human experience.
30:52
30:52 Like, if people are curious, they want
30:54
30:54 to see all of these things. And it's
30:55
30:55 another way to keep people sort of
30:56
30:56 engaged and and and uh curious about
30:59
30:59 what's coming. I have to ask, you don't
31:01
31:01 have to answer, but I have to ask.
31:02
31:02 creators are now like you gave them the
31:04
31:04 thumbnail AB testing. Now, because we're
31:07
31:07 creators, we would love title AB
31:09
31:09 testing, we would love introAB testing,
31:11
31:11 we would love brand deal AB testing, we
31:13
31:13 would love outro AB testing. Uh we want
31:16
31:16 to just basically AB test all the
31:18
31:18 things. How are you thinking about AB
31:20
31:20 testing going forward? It's funny, AB
31:23
31:23 within the team, that's a joke because
31:24
31:24 it's my name AB. Um I will say on title
31:27
31:27 AB, watch this space. Um um but we
31:32
31:32 definitely hear this a lot and I there
31:36
31:36 was a Jacqueline she was she was talking
31:38
31:38 about sort of how do you um test
31:40
31:40 multiple intros and outros. I I do want
31:43
31:43 to say this. There is also an element of
31:46
31:46 I think as we get into a world powered
31:49
31:49 like technology powered by Gen AI. I
31:52
31:52 mean, I almost imagine a world where
31:54
31:54 could you just could it could we could
31:56
31:56 you
31:57
31:57 almost we say ABC maybe it's even more
32:01
32:01 maybe it's like for this specific um uh
32:04
32:04 type of uh uh audience it's I'm going to
32:07
32:07 tweak the title segmentation right um so
32:10
32:10 I mean the world's the oyster but the
32:12
32:12 reality is as much as um um we do have
32:15
32:15 uh uh a road map and resource
32:18
32:18 constraints that we have to think about
32:19
32:19 unlimited education we don't have like
32:21
32:21 damn you know, and so we have to when I
32:24
32:24 think about sort of uh uh just the
32:26
32:26 simple thing of hosting multiple one
32:29
32:29 minute videos, I'm like, "Holy cow, a
32:31
32:31 single video like three titles times
32:33
32:33 three uh thumbnails times three intros
32:37
32:37 times three." Yeah, that's a lot of
32:38
32:38 compute. Um but yes, I think that the
32:40
32:40 the future is definitely a world where
32:42
32:42 we help creators optimize a lot better.
32:45
32:45 That's what I will say. So when you're
32:46
32:46 in that metadata editor, I sort of have
32:48
32:48 this sort of vision, so to speak, of
32:51
32:51 it'd be great if you actually never
32:52
32:52 needed to edit, right? You publish one
32:55
32:55 time, you never edit. Yeah. You never
32:57
32:57 have to come back and edit. It just it
32:58
32:58 it sort of optimizes either whether
33:01
33:01 you're uploading and it tells you the
33:02
33:02 suggestions or keywords to think about,
33:05
33:05 uh products to tag or which, you know,
33:08
33:08 we already sort of do. Um but you know
33:11
33:11 the the ideal uh an ideal meaning the
33:15
33:15 dream state would be you just set it and
33:17
33:18 that's it. So that's a beautiful segue
33:19
33:19 on your part into like we started off
33:21
33:21 with a research tab and we've gotten now
33:25
33:25 like trends and we've gotten inspiration
33:27
33:27 and inspiration does like to go back to
33:30
33:30 like the DJ in you like it does feel
33:32
33:32 like I'm starting to jam with studio
33:35
33:35 you know we call our um we call our
33:38
33:38 meeting studio jams for the this reason
33:41
33:41 um and our monthly meeting studio
33:43
33:43 sessions because it's like really
33:44
33:44 playing into um that like right it used
33:47
33:47 to be this kind unformed thing and you
33:49
33:49 came in and you didn't know what you
33:50
33:50 were going to walk out with. Um so yes
33:53
33:53 with the inspiration uh tab it first
33:56
33:56 started with this idea of when c we when
33:59
33:59 we talk to creators there's this period
34:00
34:00 they go through of research and finding
34:02
34:02 the sparks but again going back to not
34:04
34:04 every creator has the same creative
34:06
34:06 process. Some it's very linear, some
34:08
34:08 it's sort of for me it's the tyranny of
34:10
34:10 the blank page. Exactly. I just need
34:12
34:12 something. Exactly. It's a blank canvas
34:14
34:14 problem. And so when we you know when we
34:16
34:16 launched the first version of it, we
34:17
34:17 called it research even which tells you
34:19
34:19 a bit of how we were thinking about the
34:21
34:21 product. It was helping you find
34:22
34:22 keywords and patterns and what is your
34:24
34:24 audience watching? And what we started
34:26
34:26 to realize was with the creative
34:28
34:28 process. It's not this linear thing
34:30
34:30 where I look for words and it's not this
34:32
34:32 sort of um uh a very sort of scientific
34:36
34:36 actually we should allow for this beauty
34:38
34:38 of I can go back and forth and I you
34:41
34:41 know I can um uh go wide and and then
34:45
34:45 really scatter a lot of things you know
34:47
34:47 on the blank canvas and then converge
34:49
34:49 into something. Um and so we talk about
34:51
34:51 this notion of sparks, right? These
34:52
34:52 sparks that the sort of seed the idea.
34:55
34:56 So um uh as we watched and talked to
34:59
34:59 lots of creators, different types of
35:01
35:01 creators, different backgrounds, etc.,
35:03
35:03 what you find is this help me solve the
35:05
35:05 blank canvas problem. Just give me
35:06
35:06 something to start with. And it's like
35:08
35:08 we went into a jam and I start I start
35:10
35:10 snapping, you know, like oh I like that.
35:11
35:11 And it's like this yes and right and I'm
35:14
35:14 going to start Yeah. It's very much like
35:16
35:16 even if like here's the bad version, at
35:17
35:18 least there's something for you to start
35:19
35:19 with. Exactly. Um and so and and with
35:22
35:22 that you can start to give us oh
35:23
35:23 actually interesting I never I'll hear
35:25
35:25 sometimes in research I never would have
35:27
35:27 thought about that and that for me is a
35:28
35:28 win. It's like okay 10 things in front
35:31
35:31 of you. One kind of pushes the envelope
35:33
35:33 once again. One thing is kind of showing
35:35
35:35 you a different way of doing things. And
35:37
35:37 so um with the inspiration tab we've now
35:40
35:40 essentially split the product in two.
35:42
35:42 You have this one part which is the
35:44
35:44 inspiration tab that lets you um uh come
35:47
35:47 up with ideas and jam with them and
35:49
35:49 brainstorm or use these you know and and
35:51
35:51 go into this um uh idea page where you
35:54
35:54 can start to think about titles and
35:55
35:55 thumbnails etc. But you have this other
35:58
35:58 part which is the trends what is
36:00
36:00 happening on YouTube right and that that
36:03
36:03 is more analytical. I go into my
36:04
36:04 analytics and you go into the the trends
36:06
36:06 tab and you still have the keywords and
36:08
36:08 you know the people who sort of geek out
36:10
36:10 about the outliers, the search engine
36:12
36:12 optimization keywords and both of those
36:15
36:15 are important. You might have a trend
36:17
36:17 and use that to type in and say actually
36:19
36:19 give me something based on this trending
36:21
36:21 topic or the other thing I hear about is
36:24
36:24 creators will look at you know videos
36:26
36:26 your audience is watching and sometimes
36:28
36:28 there's panic about that like oh that
36:30
36:30 whole audience tab thank you by the way.
36:32
36:32 Oh, that doesn't align with my content.
36:34
36:34 But actually, um, it does. Maybe maybe
36:36
36:36 it doesn't. But that's a window into
36:39
36:39 your audience watching a video. Yeah.
36:42
36:42 And they just watched your video. And
36:44
36:44 that's some that's there's curiosity
36:45
36:46 there as well. Huh. Is there something
36:47
36:48 interesting that I can see from these
36:49
36:49 other videos they're watching that I
36:52
36:52 might be able to pull from? Is that an
36:53
36:53 opportunity to collaborate with a
36:55
36:55 creator? Yeah. Is that, you know, a gap
36:57
36:57 in topics? And so and you know you also
37:01
37:01 see that in like content your audience
37:02
37:02 watched in the the audience tab and that
37:04
37:04 really is the algorithm is looking at I
37:07
37:07 might be watching a cat video and on the
37:10
37:10 right it's showing me suggested videos
37:12
37:12 and yours pops up and that's based on
37:15
37:15 you know that person's watch history and
37:18
37:18 yeah sometimes creators think it's about
37:19
37:19 them but it's really about the audience.
37:20
37:20 It's not about you it's it's about the
37:23
37:23 audience. So where do you see like you
37:25
37:25 mentioned you're working on a film um
37:29
37:29 maybe even maybe even 10 years ago that
37:31
37:31 would have been impossible for like I
37:33
37:33 know for someone with my resources your
37:34
37:34 resources uh like typically in design
37:37
37:37 they'll say you have a thousund 100
37:38
37:38 candidates 10
37:40
37:40 likely and you pick like three and then
37:42
37:42 one but most people can't afford to make
37:44
37:44 a hundred versions of something like
37:46
37:46 maybe or even one. Yeah. Um, so or to go
37:49
37:49 through all like ideas at scale or to
37:51
37:51 get something like how are you seeing
37:53
37:53 like AI in general uh helping creators
37:57
37:57 and I think that's such a key word. I'm
37:58
37:58 going to go back to the why of studio.
38:00
38:00 We said we're your creative partner.
38:02
38:02 We're not the creative blackbox that
38:03
38:04 just creates for you, right? Our goal is
38:06
38:06 to help and help in that creative
38:08
38:08 process. So, I'll give you um uh a
38:11
38:11 perfect example. I just made um uh this
38:14
38:14 short
38:15
38:15 documentary and um I've been this idea
38:19
38:19 of celebrating West African heritage and
38:22
38:22 culture has been on my mind for 10
38:24
38:24 years. So true story. You're like people
38:25
38:25 didn't have you know true story. I could
38:27
38:27 not have made this video 10 years ago
38:29
38:29 like period. Cameras are cheaper, lenses
38:32
38:32 are cheaper, right? You have a lot more
38:33
38:34 that can be done digitally. I was able
38:35
38:35 to edit with somebody in Nigeria using
38:38
38:38 tools where I could see the edits
38:40
38:40 whereas before you would have had to
38:41
38:41 send flash drives or CDs back and forth.
38:44
38:44 So there's just so much or flown over
38:46
38:46 there to see it, right? Um there's just
38:48
38:48 so much we could do. And so when I was
38:51
38:51 coming up with the topics, I was able to
38:52
38:52 go into I actually use a lot of the
38:55
38:55 inspiration tab sort of see when I typed
38:56
38:56 in the keyword of this topic. Um it's
38:59
38:59 called dunon and dundun is a euraba word
39:01
39:01 for sweet sound. And when I typed it in,
39:04
39:04 all the videos were about like how to
39:05
39:05 make a drum, how to make a talking drum.
39:07
39:07 They were very kind of didactic. And I
39:09
39:09 was like, "Oh, that's not what I'm
39:10
39:10 trying to do. I'm actually trying to get
39:11
39:11 you into the window of this person's
39:13
39:13 mind." But what it also showed me were
39:14
39:14 all these other documentary videos like
39:16
39:16 cooking videos um and even like a
39:19
39:19 trailer for Chef's Table. Yes. Right.
39:21
39:21 Which actually inspired um you know the
39:24
39:24 the approach and the kind of stylistic
39:26
39:26 approach that I took with the the film.
39:28
39:28 And so now I've been able to take um uh
39:31
39:31 you know, you've got the inspiration
39:32
39:32 tab, but I'm also I go to
39:34
39:34 gemini.google.com and I typed in, hey,
39:36
39:36 here are these three other topics that I
39:38
39:38 would like to explore. Um which of these
39:42
39:42 do you think would be a actually the way
39:45
39:45 I asked the prompt and this is a you
39:46
39:46 know I I sort of asked like what what
39:48
39:48 would be what would be a good sequel and
39:50
39:50 why? And it gave me this, you know, this
39:53
39:53 topic because of this and it's
39:54
39:54 interesting. These are it wasn't like
39:55
39:56 there's a right or wrong, but it gave me
39:57
39:57 color and nuance that would have taken
39:59
39:59 me a lot of time and now I can take that
40:01
40:01 and go one step further. So I'm like,
40:02
40:02 okay, with this topic, here's sort of
40:04
40:04 the the hook that I'm thinking of and I
40:06
40:06 can bring that back into the inspiration
40:07
40:07 tab and sort of come up with conceptual
40:09
40:09 thumbnails and like an outline and take
40:12
40:12 that and sort of keep riffing. And so,
40:15
40:16 you know, what we've seen with
40:17
40:17 technology allowing more stories to be
40:19
40:19 told, I think this next frontier is now
40:22
40:22 you can storyboard. Yeah. You don't need
40:24
40:24 to hire a sketch artist to storyboard a
40:26
40:26 film. Now you can think about generating
40:29
40:29 shots like a tight shot, a medium shot
40:32
40:32 just to see how it would look, right? So
40:34
40:34 that you can write the script in a way
40:36
40:36 where, oh, that's actually what I was
40:37
40:38 looking for. So I had to learn all these
40:39
40:39 terms and put those in in in problem.
40:41
40:41 I'm very excited about this future where
40:43
40:44 more people can tell stories with less
40:46
40:46 barriers. I love that. One other
40:48
40:48 question we get quite a lot and I just
40:50
40:50 want to help people understand this. Why
40:52
40:52 can't we get every feature in every
40:54
40:54 surface in every version all at the same
40:57
40:57 time always everything everywhere all
40:59
40:59 once. Yeah. So like like I can like
41:02
41:02 change a thumbnail on mobile, I can't
41:03
41:03 change it on desktop, but I can do like
41:05
41:05 like this like I can upload in 4K on
41:06
41:06 desktop but I can't upload in like we
41:08
41:08 have all these different features on
41:09
41:09 different areas. If if we gave you like
41:11
41:12 a billion people, could we just like get
41:13
41:13 everything all at once? That'd be a lot
41:15
41:15 of chaos. First of all, um enthropy is a
41:18
41:18 thing. Um uh it's it's a fantastic
41:21
41:21 question. I I one of our core principles
41:24
41:24 in with studio is um we it's it really
41:28
41:28 is the foundation. We call it accessible
41:30
41:30 and it's this idea that you should not
41:33
41:33 like you should not need it's what we
41:34
41:34 just talked about. You shouldn't have to
41:36
41:36 get a laptop or have like an expensive
41:39
41:39 internet connection in some countries or
41:41
41:41 a super high-end phone to be able to
41:43
41:43 express yourself, right? Um you you know
41:47
41:47 storytelling, you look at really old
41:49
41:49 YouTube videos that sort of blew up and
41:51
41:51 some of the videos even today there's so
41:53
41:53 it's like the story is the essence of
41:54
41:54 it. Like we do all of this but really at
41:56
41:56 the end of it there's a story like lowi
41:57
41:57 and people just want to hear the yeah
41:58
41:58 the conversation point. Exactly. And I
42:01
42:01 think we shouldn't lose sight of that
42:02
42:02 that you know um that access is so
42:05
42:05 important. So, one of the things, you
42:06
42:06 know, and you you see this over the
42:07
42:08 years, we wanted to make sure, for
42:09
42:09 example, like I said, in the YouTube um
42:12
42:12 app, um we wanted to make sure that you
42:14
42:14 could access uh analytics because for a
42:16
42:16 lot of creators, uh some in emerging
42:17
42:18 market, some just getting started, I
42:19
42:19 don't want to download another app just
42:20
42:20 to get an understanding of views, right?
42:23
42:23 So, or my my uh my basic know there's
42:26
42:26 another app, right? And and that's okay.
42:28
42:28 And it's like, let's meet you where you
42:30
42:30 are and bring some of that in there. Um,
42:33
42:33 I know on studio mobile it used to be
42:35
42:35 and you know I used to sort of gawk at
42:37
42:37 this sort of like like um you couldn't
42:40
42:40 upload a video on studio mobile for a
42:41
42:41 very long time. You had to go on the web
42:44
42:44 or the YouTube app and we've sort of
42:46
42:46 closed that. So it's definitely a
42:48
42:48 philosophy that we make sure we're not
42:50
42:50 going to bring everything into every
42:51
42:51 surface. There are just things you can't
42:53
42:53 do on the form factor of a phone versus
42:56
42:56 a laptop. So we also want to be
42:57
42:58 intentional about you know for example
43:00
43:00 advanced analytics. Yeah, I don't want
43:02
43:02 you comparing two videos and looking at
43:03
43:04 graphs on your mobile phone. Like that's
43:05
43:05 never going to be a thing, right? It's
43:08
43:08 just no, it's not it's it's not a great
43:10
43:10 experience. But I think, you know, um
43:12
43:12 there is this theme of we want to make
43:15
43:15 sure that you're able to access these
43:18
43:18 products and meet you where you are
43:21
43:21 based on what you're trying to
43:22
43:22 accomplish. So when you're getting
43:23
43:23 started, you've got basic analytics.
43:25
43:25 When you get more intentional, then you
43:27
43:27 download Studio Mobile and you're
43:28
43:28 willing to sort of make that that high,
43:30
43:30 you know, spend that cost of downloading
43:32
43:32 another app and understanding it to go
43:34
43:34 deeper. And then, you know, over time,
43:36
43:36 we've made it so that it actually works
43:37
43:38 very well on the iPad. It it wasn't
43:39
43:39 always the case. Right now, it's a lot
43:41
43:41 more seamless. Foldable, too. Foldable
43:43
43:43 as well. And, you know, on a desktop.
43:45
43:45 So, absolutely. Um, even if you threw in
43:49
43:49 a lot of resources, there are certain
43:50
43:50 things that would not exist everywhere,
43:51
43:52 but there's definitely a long way for us
43:53
43:53 to go in closing the gaps. Do you think
43:55
43:55 about what type of user uses each
43:57
43:57 surface to prioritize as well? Like like
43:59
43:59 this is more of a mobile audience. So
44:01
44:01 we'll we'll start off with Yeah. And and
44:03
44:03 also um uh types of there are there are
44:05
44:06 markets like my home country Nigeria
44:07
44:07 where it's going to be predominantly
44:09
44:09 mobile for quite some time. There are
44:11
44:11 creators on laptops and but the the the
44:14
44:14 country really is mobile first and so
44:17
44:17 you know you have people mobile and TV
44:19
44:19 and even have a laptop, right? I have a
44:21
44:21 laptop at work, right? And so and we
44:24
44:24 also want you to be able to create. So
44:25
44:25 I, you know, for a Nigerian who is on
44:28
44:28 mobile, we want to be able to give you
44:29
44:30 an inspiration experience, right? In
44:32
44:32 inspiration tab experience where it
44:34
44:34 works with that mobile form factor where
44:36
44:36 I'm not seeing a list of things and
44:38
44:38 something on the side because I just
44:39
44:39 don't have that space. So what does that
44:40
44:40 look like? So we have to design with
44:42
44:42 that intentionality around mobile first.
44:44
44:44 I'm probably on the go. Yeah. Sometimes.
44:46
44:46 And there are also creators who use it
44:48
44:48 as a companion. So creators will say I
44:50
44:50 use the mobile for looking at my
44:52
44:52 notifications and like looking at quick
44:54
44:54 comments and then I go do a proper
44:56
44:56 workflow um on the web later on to
44:59
44:59 write. So we also think about those
45:00
45:00 kinds of experiences. The key is
45:02
45:02 remembering that creators are as nuanced
45:04
45:04 as they come. Right. So what is like at
45:09
45:09 large your vision for studio? Where do
45:11
45:11 you see it going over the next couple
45:13
45:13 years? Uh no pressure. Yeah. No pressure
45:16
45:16 whatsoever. Um, I think the the answer
45:20
45:20 really lies in what does it mean to
45:22
45:22 continue to be a creative partner
45:25
45:25 over time. Yeah. Because creators needs
45:27
45:27 evolve and we've just been talking about
45:30
45:30 this the whole time. Technology evolves
45:32
45:32 and storytelling is evolving. And what
45:34
45:34 does that mean to be a true partner? And
45:37
45:37 I think at the core of that is
45:38
45:38 optimizing for creators goals, not some
45:42
45:42 not every c like not every creator is
45:44
45:44 trying to get to X number of views. Some
45:45
45:45 creators just want their hundred folks
45:48
45:48 who love their stuff. Creators have
45:51
45:51 different different goals. They just
45:52
45:52 want to sell a product and they have a
45:53
45:53 specific audience in mind. Yeah. Right.
45:55
45:55 And for some people it's you know um I
45:57
45:57 just have my you know I have my my um
46:01
46:01 the my members for example and I love
46:03
46:03 what uh my colleagues are doing with uh
46:06
46:06 memberships and fan funding where some
46:08
46:08 creators like I just want to I'll post
46:10
46:10 um videos and the real sort of core
46:14
46:14 thing that's for my members who really
46:16
46:16 get what I'm trying to do. So it's
46:18
46:18 really meeting it's this I feel like a
46:21
46:21 broken record but we say repetition
46:22
46:22 doesn't spoil the prayer. Um it's this
46:24
46:24 notion of meeting creators where they
46:26
46:26 are and also continuing to evolve in a
46:28
46:28 way where we are able to help um aid you
46:32
46:32 to tell that story in its most authentic
46:35
46:35 form right where um we you know we do
46:40
46:40 show you all these numbers and I would
46:42
46:42 love a world where we're able to help
46:43
46:43 you make sense of those numbers based on
46:45
46:45 the goals that you have right and that
46:47
46:48 also means understanding some of those
46:49
46:49 goals in a more nuanced way um I I I
46:53
46:53 think it's also um there are still these
46:55
46:55 sort of journeys that are somewhat uh
46:58
46:58 fragmented, right? So you go into this
47:00
47:00 experience and this app and that app and
47:03
47:03 also making sure that it's seamless,
47:05
47:05 right? Regardless of what sort of
47:06
47:06 editing tool or what products you're
47:08
47:08 using, how do we make that expression as
47:11
47:11 seamless as possible, right? In a very
47:13
47:13 elegant way. Uh but of course it's a
47:15
47:15 vision and really I think at the core of
47:17
47:17 it, I like to use the term expression
47:19
47:19 meets connection. Okay, I love that.
47:21
47:21 Right? And it's Expression means you
47:24
47:24 never feel a barrier to expressing
47:26
47:26 yourself. Whatever form, whatever
47:28
47:28 format, um whatever story, right?
47:31
47:31 Whether it's a podcast or you want to
47:33
47:33 try something else or live that it just
47:36
47:36 it just works. And then ultimately
47:39
47:39 you're not expressing yourself just for
47:41
47:41 yourself. Although I love Doi. I've been
47:44
47:44 watching her stuff. She has these
47:46
47:46 videos. I don't know if you've seen them
47:47
47:47 from four years ago where she was
47:49
47:50 recording them for herself. By the way,
47:51
47:51 every creator should watch them. She was
47:53
47:53 just recording. It was a diary. She she
47:55
47:55 read this book called the artist the
47:56
47:56 artist's way. It's a beautiful book. And
47:59
47:59 um she went through 12 weeks. It's a
48:01
48:01 12-week program. And she recorded. She's
48:02
48:02 like, "Doi, this is for you in future."
48:04
48:04 And I I love that. I'm just like she she
48:06
48:06 turned off comments. She's like, "Yeah,
48:08
48:08 she's like this." She she'll say things
48:10
48:10 like, "This is for me. You are
48:11
48:11 frustrated right now. We're going." And
48:13
48:13 she just won how like Grammys and Right.
48:15
48:16 And it's it's it's a it's a creator
48:18
48:18 first musician. And I love that, you
48:21
48:21 know, YouTube is a place where she could
48:23
48:23 have done she did that. Um, and and
48:26
48:26 that's this is what I'm saying. You you
48:29
48:29 express yourself and ultimately you have
48:30
48:30 a goal and you build connections with
48:32
48:32 people and those connections may be
48:35
48:35 someone in some remote village somewhere
48:37
48:37 who connects with you and the the the
48:40
48:40 platform allows you to do that. You
48:42
48:42 don't have to get on a plane to connect
48:43
48:43 with these people. You have a tribe all
48:45
48:45 over the world. And how do we make sure
48:46
48:46 the connection stays at the core? And
48:48
48:48 it's not just chasing the numbers are
48:50
48:50 important, but it's not just chasing the
48:51
48:51 numbers. It's about building those
48:52
48:52 connections. And then the sort of for
48:55
48:56 those who want to monetize and what that
48:57
48:57 comes from that that intersection of
48:59
48:59 expression and connection. I love that
49:01
49:01 so much. I love you so much. Thank you
49:02
49:02 so much for taking this time with us.
49:03
49:03 Thank you, Renee. And thank you
49:05
49:05 insiders. You know what to do. Just drop
49:07
49:07 down there. Leave us comments. Leave us
49:09
49:09 questions and keep it